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New user? Re: Two face
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Posted
5/10/2004; 4:09 PM by Jim RoepckeLast Modified
5/10/2004; 4:09 PM by Jim RoepckeIn Response To
Re: Two face (#6896)Label
PoliticsRead Count
223
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On May 10, 2004, at 1:50 PM, Brian Carnell wrote:
> Rumsfeld had been briefed -- he just hadn't seen the pictures.
Then I think he was briefed poorly or had a very wrong expectation of
how big this was going to become.
> I'm not sure why he needs to see the pictures.
What? Need he be protected from violent imagery, so that he can make
war merrily rather than deal with reality? He needs to see them so he
has CONTEXT. He needs to see them so he doesn't make stupid uninformed
statements like he did in that press conference. He needs to see them
to maintain the public's confidence in his ability to effectively do
his job.
> Doing so simply needlessly jeopardizes the prosecutions
He's not the prosecutor or the judge is he? And they're already public
so the damage is done.
> -- as the release of them has clearly done and probably was intended
> to do by the leaker -- and doesn't really add anything. ("Yep, those
> are really horrific pictures.")
It adds a lot. The people of Iraq have word of mouth knowledge of this
stuff, Iraqis already know why they shouldn't trust the US Government
or military, but all Americans see is the filtered propaganda image of
what's going on. This has given the public information it needs so it
can properly evaluate its government's ability to do the job it said it
was going to do in Iraq, which Americans are paying for dearly,
monetarily and otherwise. There's little difference between the images
we see from that prison and the images we saw of what Saddam's thugs
were doing to its prisoners.
Reminds me of the Waxworld episode of Red Dwarf, actually...
RIMMER: Victory, gentlemen! The fascists have fallen!
KRYTEN: May I untie them now, sir.
(Note from Jim: Rimmer had Kryten tie up Lister and the Cat so they
couldn't interfere with Rimmer's plans)
RIMMER: Rejoice! We conquer! Victory on Waxworld! It's VW day!
LISTER: So you took the HQ. Wiped them all out.
RIMMER: To a droid.
KRYTEN: It's true, all melted.
LISTER: What about Arnie's army?
CAT: Yeah, how many of them made it back?
RIMMER: There are always casualties in war, gentlemen. Otherwise it
wouldn't be war, just be a rather nasty argument with a lot of pushing
and shoving.
LISTER: So how many survived?
RIMMER: Well we haven't had time to make a full official estimate, but
at
a rough guess, and obviously this is subject to alteration pending
information updates, roundabout none of them.
LISTER: So you wiped out the entire population of this planet.
RIMMER: You make it sound so negative, Lister. Don't you see, the
deranged menace that once threatened this world is vanquished!
LISTER: No it isn't, pal. You're still here.
RIMMER: I brought about peace. Peace, freedom and democracy.
LISTER: Yeah, Rimmer. Right. Absolutely. Now all the corpses that
litter that battlefield can just lie there safe under the knowledge
that they snuffed it under a flag of peace and can now happily
decompose in a land of freedom. Ya smeg head.
RIMMER: There really is no pleasing some people, is there?
Jim
> Rumsfeld had been briefed -- he just hadn't seen the pictures.
Then I think he was briefed poorly or had a very wrong expectation of
how big this was going to become.
> I'm not sure why he needs to see the pictures.
What? Need he be protected from violent imagery, so that he can make
war merrily rather than deal with reality? He needs to see them so he
has CONTEXT. He needs to see them so he doesn't make stupid uninformed
statements like he did in that press conference. He needs to see them
to maintain the public's confidence in his ability to effectively do
his job.
> Doing so simply needlessly jeopardizes the prosecutions
He's not the prosecutor or the judge is he? And they're already public
so the damage is done.
> -- as the release of them has clearly done and probably was intended
> to do by the leaker -- and doesn't really add anything. ("Yep, those
> are really horrific pictures.")
It adds a lot. The people of Iraq have word of mouth knowledge of this
stuff, Iraqis already know why they shouldn't trust the US Government
or military, but all Americans see is the filtered propaganda image of
what's going on. This has given the public information it needs so it
can properly evaluate its government's ability to do the job it said it
was going to do in Iraq, which Americans are paying for dearly,
monetarily and otherwise. There's little difference between the images
we see from that prison and the images we saw of what Saddam's thugs
were doing to its prisoners.
Reminds me of the Waxworld episode of Red Dwarf, actually...
RIMMER: Victory, gentlemen! The fascists have fallen!
KRYTEN: May I untie them now, sir.
(Note from Jim: Rimmer had Kryten tie up Lister and the Cat so they
couldn't interfere with Rimmer's plans)
RIMMER: Rejoice! We conquer! Victory on Waxworld! It's VW day!
LISTER: So you took the HQ. Wiped them all out.
RIMMER: To a droid.
KRYTEN: It's true, all melted.
LISTER: What about Arnie's army?
CAT: Yeah, how many of them made it back?
RIMMER: There are always casualties in war, gentlemen. Otherwise it
wouldn't be war, just be a rather nasty argument with a lot of pushing
and shoving.
LISTER: So how many survived?
RIMMER: Well we haven't had time to make a full official estimate, but
at
a rough guess, and obviously this is subject to alteration pending
information updates, roundabout none of them.
LISTER: So you wiped out the entire population of this planet.
RIMMER: You make it sound so negative, Lister. Don't you see, the
deranged menace that once threatened this world is vanquished!
LISTER: No it isn't, pal. You're still here.
RIMMER: I brought about peace. Peace, freedom and democracy.
LISTER: Yeah, Rimmer. Right. Absolutely. Now all the corpses that
litter that battlefield can just lie there safe under the knowledge
that they snuffed it under a flag of peace and can now happily
decompose in a land of freedom. Ya smeg head.
RIMMER: There really is no pleasing some people, is there?
Jim
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